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 Map feedback 
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:17 am
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Post Map feedback
Hey,

I spent some time on creating heightmaps for a decent map to play on. In my opinion it's a good start but it still needs some work to flesh out the details for nice capping routes.

Would you guys mind to have a look at the terrain and tell me what you think?

Thats the download: http://roladder.net/~norman/pff-test.zip

To run the map you need the source version and the udk just like described on this site: http://projectfreefall.com/source-files.html


Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:31 pm
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Post Re: Map feedback
It definitely makes the game feel floaty. Maybe the scale is off?

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Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:45 pm
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Post Re: Map feedback
The scale of the map does make it feel a bit floaty, but it is using all the correct settings. It's a pretty good map for skiing. Determining where the map boundary is still a problem(maybe we should just make a cube that surrounds the map but doesn't actually block players?). I'm using it for testing the new ski system as I code.

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"Not every idea your gonna have is gonna be great, but I guarentee you every idea that doesnt work will somehow work into the idea that does." -Derek Waters

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Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:54 pm
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Post Re: Map feedback
Ignorance wrote:
Determining where the map boundary is still a problem(maybe we should just make a cube that surrounds the map but doesn't actually block players?). I'm using it for testing the new ski system as I code.


There doesn't necessarily need to be any specific clear thing that shows the player where the map is supposed to end. One possibility is to have the edges of the maps be tall extremely steep hills à la Temple Ruins (especially version 3) as in T:A (map still has the OOB grid of course but the hills alone would be enough of a sign that it's the edge of the map). That is of course, a thing that the mappers will have to spend a lot of time on or it won't end up all that great for the map.

What do you mean by this cube that doesn't block players? Like, a visible border for the map that still lets you through?


Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:18 pm
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Post Re: Map feedback
DejZant wrote:
What do you mean by this cube that doesn't block players? Like, a visible border for the map that still lets you through?

Yes, exactly. The player would just pass through, and it would serve as a visual indicator that the player is nearing the map edge.

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"Not every idea your gonna have is gonna be great, but I guarentee you every idea that doesnt work will somehow work into the idea that does." -Derek Waters

"It's a weird feeling being borderline addicted to gaming and not having anything to play that I can tolerate at the same time." -DejZant

"No longer are you justified saying that an idea in science is not true because it doesn't make sense." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

@Saccaed for updates and randomness...


Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:31 pm
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:33 am
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Post Re: Map feedback
Some feedback for you yankee. These are things that I find worthy of mentioning on the map. Overall I like the map, very nice to ski on, seems viable for CTF, and has nice terrain / shape.

1) The map is big. Keep in mind that this is perhaps too big to be playable without a large group of people (12vs12 minimum, perhaps?). That's not a downside really, just an observation. If you're looking at making a map that we could play on and use, this is a bit too big. I love big maps but they don't really work with smaller crowds.

2) Currently you have five landmarks / objects that give the player an idea of where he is: the two flagstands, the two towers on top of the two large center hills, and the bizarre structure in between and to the side of the towers. Your map is frankly said, huge. If you are going to make a huge map, you need good landmarks. Your five objects need some improvement. Your flagstands are okay, but the towers are way too small. The towers, to make for good landmarks, need to be the size of the katabatic (T:A version) towers, at least in terms of height. The odd structure also needs to be improved upon a bit. I have no idea what it's supposed to be, but it could either change size or you could add some small additional structures besides it, like the two towers you currently have there.

3) Mirroring has caused a sharp seam that splits half the map. Not really important but still might want to fix.

4) Terrain lacks texture (is black) in multiple parts of the map. Especially behind blue base.

5) Viewed from the center of the map, the right of the left flag and the left of the blue flag there is a small dip before hitting the flag stand. This means that the capper has to conserve energy to get enough to upjet expending a lot of energy before going down the hill that leads to that dip to avoid being misdirected by it. Project free fall doesn't really have too strong jetting, meaning that that particular dip will have to shape the ends of any route trying to approach from that angle. Intentional?

6) Put some textures on the objects, like concrete textures or something, surely there is something that fits it available. The chessboard texture looks real distracting. Not that important.

7) Why the obstacle behind the flag if it doesn't prevent you from approaching from that direction? If you want to stop B2F routes, that's not going to work unless you make it significantly taller (2x?).

8) Not sure if problem with PFF skiing and the geometry of the terrain or something else but I noticed there was a small spot of the terrain next to the towers that I couldn't walk or ski through. Just as if there was a wall there in that very small spot.

I'll play around with it and if something else pops up I'll mention it.


Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:59 am
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Post Re: Map feedback
DejZant wrote:
Some feedback for you yankee. These are things that I find worthy of mentioning on the map. Overall I like the map, very nice to ski on, seems viable for CTF, and has nice terrain / shape.
Hey DejZant, thanks alot for the feedback. I'll answer point by point now.

DejZant wrote:
1) The map is big. Keep in mind that this is perhaps too big to be playable without a large group of people (12vs12 minimum, perhaps?). That's not a downside really, just an observation. If you're looking at making a map that we could play on and use, this is a bit too big. I love big maps but they don't really work with smaller crowds.

The plan is to make that kind of OOB border that Ignorance mentioned. So there would be a kind of grind you're able to cross but which tells you "hey, if you cross this you'll be out of the action zone" but you won't feel as caged as in T:A because you can still use all that nice terrain to make reeeeaaally long routes on the outside.

http://roladder.net/~norman/map01.png
This is what I've thought of. Green would be a soft OOB border and red is the hard OOB you can't cross.

DejZant wrote:
2) Currently you have five landmarks / objects that give the player an idea of where he is: the two flagstands, the two towers on top of the two large center hills, and the bizarre structure in between and to the side of the towers. Your map is frankly said, huge. If you are going to make a huge map, you need good landmarks. Your five objects need some improvement. Your flagstands are okay, but the towers are way too small. The towers, to make for good landmarks, need to be the size of the katabatic (T:A version) towers, at least in terms of height. The odd structure also needs to be improved upon a bit. I have no idea what it's supposed to be, but it could either change size or you could add some small additional structures besides it, like the two towers you currently have there.
Yes, you're definitely right with this one. The towers should be definitely rather like katabatic size. I kinda liked the idea of old T2 maps that you sometimes have some kind of an outpost in the midfield, maybe even that would be interesting.
The odd structure is just some placeholder. Well, actually all the blocks are just placeholders at the moment, but for that I'd like to add some cool neutral base or something which fits into the hills.

DejZant wrote:
3) Mirroring has caused a sharp seam that splits half the map. Not really important but still might want to fix.

Yes, thats due to the fact that I spent several hours of just generating terrain, tweaking in photoshop and importing into UDK. I think I had around 20-25 iterations till I found some values and terrain which fits skiing and a proper CTF map. So it didn't smooth all the seams because I'd be too time consuming to do it with every new iteration but I'll do it with the next version of this map.

DejZant wrote:
4) Terrain lacks texture (is black) in multiple parts of the map. Especially behind blue base.
It's the same with the smoothing. I didn't spend to much time on painting the texture but of course a proper version would have also more than one texture. ;)
Same with 6)


DejZant wrote:
5) Viewed from the center of the map, the right of the left flag and the left of the blue flag there is a small dip before hitting the flag stand. This means that the capper has to conserve energy to get enough to upjet expending a lot of energy before going down the hill that leads to that dip to avoid being misdirected by it. Project free fall doesn't really have too strong jetting, meaning that that particular dip will have to shape the ends of any route trying to approach from that angle. Intentional?
No, its not intentional but would you mind to make a screenshot of it? It would be way easier for me then.

DejZant wrote:
7) Why the obstacle behind the flag if it doesn't prevent you from approaching from that direction? If you want to stop B2F routes, that's not going to work unless you make it significantly taller (2x?).
Yep, the intention was too prevent B2F. However, the base isn't really elaborated or anything. I just placed some brushes so it's easier to see flag and get a feeling for the distance from base to base. If you have some amazing ideas how a good base should look like. Feel free to share!


DejZant wrote:
8) Not sure if problem with PFF skiing and the geometry of the terrain or something else but I noticed there was a small spot of the terrain next to the towers that I couldn't walk or ski through. Just as if there was a wall there in that very small spot.
Euh, will check that.


Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:12 am
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Post Re: Map feedback
yankee wrote:
DejZant wrote:
8) Not sure if problem with PFF skiing and the geometry of the terrain or something else but I noticed there was a small spot of the terrain next to the towers that I couldn't walk or ski through. Just as if there was a wall there in that very small spot.
Euh, will check that.

It has to do with terrain steepness. As mentioned in one of the ski videos, the current ski code isn't perfect, and you can get caught on things that are steep. I too noticed the hang spots(but I know how to look for them).

Check the dark side of the tower closest to the moon side of the map. I use the moon because its a pretty good global landmark. The shade side of that particular hill is very steep, and can cause hangups about 3/4 the way up.

Also, a note on mirroring, you might consider mirroring the terrain across a diagonal; it would likely smooth out the transitions a bit(so that they wouldn't be perpendicular to routes).

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"Not every idea your gonna have is gonna be great, but I guarentee you every idea that doesnt work will somehow work into the idea that does." -Derek Waters

"It's a weird feeling being borderline addicted to gaming and not having anything to play that I can tolerate at the same time." -DejZant

"No longer are you justified saying that an idea in science is not true because it doesn't make sense." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

@Saccaed for updates and randomness...


Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:20 am
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Post Re: Map feedback
yankee wrote:
No, its not intentional but would you mind to make a screenshot of it? It would be way easier for me then.


http://i.imgur.com/wzs60.jpg

@Ignorance: Too steep terrain causes them? Both the locations where I found them were basically flat land.


Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:14 pm
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Post Re: Map feedback
Hmm, that is interesting.

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"Not every idea your gonna have is gonna be great, but I guarentee you every idea that doesnt work will somehow work into the idea that does." -Derek Waters

"It's a weird feeling being borderline addicted to gaming and not having anything to play that I can tolerate at the same time." -DejZant

"No longer are you justified saying that an idea in science is not true because it doesn't make sense." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

@Saccaed for updates and randomness...


Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:18 pm
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