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 Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC 
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:21 pm
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Post Re: Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC
I agreed with a lot of what you guys were saying. The only part that made me sad was you not loving the dueling in Tribes. I think I understand what you mean by it feeling a bit awkward though. Tribes 2 and Tribes have definitely not aged well when it comes to movement and overall feeling of the game and it was pretty clunky. However, the dueling in tribes 2 was some of my favorite combat of any game.

I played a lot of Unreal Tournament and a little of Quake but never competitively. I enjoyed the twitch fighting very much at the time but tired of it and never went back after Tribes. For one thing I'm no longer 13 so the constant frantic pace is not to my tastes any more and Tribes was so much more rewarding and deeper in my opinion that it ruined most other shooters for me. I did enjoy Gears of War for PC for many years because it slowed things down and made them more tactical. Console was too slow and clunky for me but the PC port was in the sweet spot. There was clever footwork, evasion, and stalking enemies mixed in with short bursts of action and chaos. It was a good balance for me of using your brain, communication and skills moreso than constant action of an arena shooter. There were also a lot of movement glitches and neat interactions with weapons and cover that made things fresh.

Sad to hear you didn't play much t2 Ignorance. I played it around five years constantly. You guys probably know a lot of the following but I'll ramble anyways. The dueling in it was very fun and reminded me of jousting. Two guys appear a few dozen meters from each other and then charge and jetpack at eachother and take midair shots. They fly past eachother if they miss and end up on opposite sides. At long range you use grenade launcher, at medium disk and or chaingun and close up shocklance or now melee in T:A. It reminded me of two knights going at each other over and over only with jetpacks instead of horses. You had to master footwork like any martial art but in the form of skiing, strafing and tactically falling off of things to avoid being ground shot. You had to master timing so as to have time to get off as many mid air attempts as possible but also have your gun reloaded to hit your enemy's feet as soon as they landed. You also had to master evasion so as to bounce off of the ground before your enemy had reloaded and taken a shot. You had to choose whether to use energy to dodge a possible mid air hit but risk taking a ground hit when you ran out of energy. Dueling in T:A is pretty dumbed down as as a result of the two weapon system but there is lots of fun footwork and feints in knife fights.

I've watched quite a few professional Quake matches and played a lot of UT and none of the dueling feels as rewarding to me as Tribes. I can't stand "water the grass" type of weapons you just wave back and forth keeping the cursor on the enemy like the lightning gun or Doom plasma gun or Quake chaingun. Can't stand hitscan in open environments either. Did enjoy the sniper in Gears of War where there is a ton of cover and people can regenerate health quickly and only headshots kill though. Chaingun in t2 was a bit overpowered but wasn't too bad because of the wind up time and wide cone of fire. Unlike Hirez, Dynamix knew bullet weapons were overpowered in a wide open environment without cover. Modding is great because we can all add our own weapons in and experiment and find which ones we like in different environments.

The main contribution T:A has added to tribes in my opinion is melee. It was in T:V but I never used it much there. Melee is one of the most rewarding kills, better than a midair even. Not sure how many crazy melees you guys have gotten but imagine swooping in for a flag on the ground at 250, knifing the guy protecting it and then swooping off all without losing any speed. That or blasting upward at an angle and stopping an incoming emergency capper dead in his tracks or catching up to a speeding capper 100 meters in the air, knifing him and returning it instantly. Sadly most people don't get to enjoy these kinds of kills so I would add in a wider variety of melee weapons in addition to knives. Longer ranged but slower for example to balance it out. Reminds me of all the samurai movies where two guys face off and swing at eachother and then a few seconds later the other drops dead and half his body falls off.


Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:09 am
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Post Re: Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC
Oh hey, ramble time!..
I guess another interesting thing is this game is not planned to be a p2w. You'd think this was from some valve guy. Same with the Reflex guys


Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:05 am
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Post Re: Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC
I generally despise F2P models, mainly because they almost always have some sort of grind and block user modding. But Freefall sounds like it'll be very moddable, so I'm not really sure what their F2P model will really consist of.

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Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:26 am
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Post Re: Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC
Not sure what it'll consist of either. Whatever happens, I've no plans to compromise gameplay for a pay model; plan on being a dev that approaches problems with creativity rather than "it can't be helped".

@Gorthaur - I like tribes combat, but it lacks in dueling; dueling being when two players commit to fighting each other(not when one wants to fight and the other doesn't reciprocate). The option to run away or not engage seems too available in Tribes games for my taste; very rarely have I found myself trapped in a forced engagement.

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@Saccaed for updates and randomness...


Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:44 pm
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Post Re: Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC
Because of the lack of tribsy games around PFF might survive for a long time after release (i think i heard about premium servers or something totally affordable anyway). The only thing i can think of for a quick injection of money to support a team is crowdfunding stuff once a playable demo and artworks are ready, except more people are likely to feel nostalgic about (micro) quake than tribes. Not that i mean PFF is going to be bad or anything hey. I think i'd pledge for small single player episodes listed through stretch goals. Stuff to speedrun "like old times". An Unreal vibe. But I know people either work on great multiplayer or great single player games.


Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:33 am
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Post Re: Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC
@Gorthaur: I can't help not respond to a wall of text. :)

I think with the speed actual speed we intend to introduce we'll very much end back with an early tribes vibe to the vertical movement. The quake aspect mostly means that the maps / bases / rooms will have that kind of setup that doesn't only have the tribes focus but also the quake focus of indoor horizontal speed as well. Which is summarized in one word with 'flow'. A lot of tribes indoor combat severely lacks that.

Quake duelling has a lot more going on than just the engagement. It's also about item timing, flanking and positioning ON TOP of the actual skill involved in the engagement. Also, speaking from experience, the LG is a very difficult weapon to use right, especially when combined with dodging. It's not very riveting to watch as a layman spectator, but there is some amazing stuff happening.
Also, it's not twitch gameplay. Apart from the Railgun, quake can be considered 'slow' in combat compared to CS or even CoD where twitch reaction and combat length is concerned. Movement during an engagement in those two later games is pointless as it all comes down to initial positioning.

Quake and Tribes weapons somewhat overlap, except for the LG. And you're right it doesn't suit a large open CTF map the way it is now. In my mind it either has to do very low damage or normal damage with a significant drawback (health cost, energy cost, short burst overheating etc..)

In terms of melee, if it's up to me, everyone gets a spear in PFF. Which deals damage depending on the speed difference between targets (or a flat damage amount depending on what is higher). When you have the flag the spear gets replaced with that.

In terms of monetization, I think the best model to follow right now is Path of Exile's Grinding Gear Games. Full game available, cosmetics and convenience is paid for.
And don't worry Voidspawn, by the time we're in that stage, I'm sure you won't be the one doing all the extra modelling work ;)

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Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:45 pm
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Post Re: Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC
Soo a "full cosmetic&stuff package" might happen along the way? For those who feel like owning the game.


Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:31 pm
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Post Re: Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC
I doubt it. Just from the marketplace model I vaguely envision, the aesthetics outside of free assets will have a price point determined by the seller. Not sure exactly what I have in mind, but I would like for artists to be able to sell their work. Owning the game hopefully will be as simple as downloading it.

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"Not every idea your gonna have is gonna be great, but I guarentee you every idea that doesnt work will somehow work into the idea that does." -Derek Waters

"It's a weird feeling being borderline addicted to gaming and not having anything to play that I can tolerate at the same time." -DejZant

"No longer are you justified saying that an idea in science is not true because it doesn't make sense." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

@Saccaed for updates and randomness...


Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:27 pm
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Post Re: Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC
I just wanted to comment on melee, specifically as implemented in TA...

At Tribes speeds, there is no reason to swing a sword - it does nothing to make it more deadly. I imagine holding my sword in front of me as i fly at the flag defender, such that it pierces him when we meet... not timing it so i swing at that critical moment. Perhaps at slower speeds, ofc. just a thought.

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Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:32 am
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Post Re: Project Freefall - Speculations #000 - Saccaed & GrethSC
Allowing artists to set a price for their own stuff sounds cool. Kinda scary. Kinda cool.


Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:33 am
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