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 Hybrid game mode idea 
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Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:13 am
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Post Hybrid game mode idea
Every map is a blank canvas at the start of each game until assets are deployed, and we have 3 categories:

Base assets - Flag Base, Reactor, Bunker
Team assets - Drone, Catapult, Armory
Construction assets - Barrier, Platform, Teleporter

You load the map, and there is nothing but the environment and spawn points. At this point it is basically TDM, team score is accrued by kills and continues this way until someone on the team deploys one or more base assets - flag base (CTF), bunker (C&H), or reactor (D&D). Each of these also serves as a dispenser for team assets. Reactor supplies armories, flag base supplies catapults, and bunker supplies drones (our version of turrets). As a server option, base assets can be deployed automatically at designated locations when certain scores are reached, or relegated to the players free-for-all and placed anywhere.

Construction assets are flexible; they could be made freely accessible, assigned to base assets, or become available only if all 3 base assets are deployed. This is a another server option.

Getting kills scores team points, but completing an objective scores the big points. The objectives are: extract the other team's flag into your zone, capture the other team's bunker, or destroy the other team's reactor. Deploying a base asset gives your team an advantage, but doing so reduces your point gain from objectives. For example, you would gain a hypothetical 1000 points for completing an objective with zero base assets, 750 with one, 500 with two, and 250 with three. For another server option we have point cap mode (objectives completed once each) or time limit mode (continuous objectives).

For balance, we make spawn gear some very average, vanilla stuff. Moderately effective against players and assets, but not great at either. Deploying a reactor enables your armories so you can equip more specialized gear for combat or demolition, but provides the other team with a stationary target. Deploying a flag base enables your catapults so you can mount a quicker offense, but provides the other team an objective they can grab and run. Deploying a bunker enables your drones so you can defend your other shit, but provides the other team with a position they can occupy.

Team assets can be made to be persistent or go offline while their dispensary (base asset) is in play, this is another server option. So if the other team takes your flag, your catapults won't work until it is returned. If they destroy your reactor, your armories won't work until it is repaired. If they capture your bunker, your drones won't work until it is retaken.

The server options give some pretty simple switches for more or less hardcore gameplay.

It is surely a far out idea, and incorporating CTF in this way is a departure from the standard because in order for it to work we have to allow capture without a flag at home. This is why I refer to it as extraction. This is more like the TF2 version, so aesthetically we could substitute flag for intel or something else of military value.


edit: substituted teleporters for lifts, as they already exist and accomplish the same job and more.


Last edited by Skeptic on Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:36 am
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Post Re: Hybrid game mode idea
Standard Brainstorm Disclaimerâ„¢ - This is a discussion for a single game mode. Regular tribeslike ctf and quake like DM is still very much a thing. We're just dreaming here boys.

It's taken me a while to reply, I'll say in advance that I'm in love with the Risk vs reward idea here. It could provide immense depth with minor complexity.
My Seeder concept comes close to what you have in mind. But the 'risk progression' is something very interesting.

The RTS player in me wants to make a full-on Giants: Citizen Kabuto. A game might I add that had rapid movement, jetpacks, vehicles AND (almost) FULLY DEPLOYABLE BASES!!! Yet sadly forgotten by many. Sacrifice also comes to mind (for the base construction part). To me, yet another amazing game lost to the sands of time because of a somewhat too ambitious approach.

That said.

I like the concept, but I think there is too much going on. And the idea of the drones / bunker is something I'd like to avoid. I could see multiple levels of the armoury eventually supplying my 'Pod Gun' (better ctrl+F it ... It's a big thread :'( ). I would rather steer clear of anything automated. Perhaps some form of vehicle can be considered. I'd only really want the old school shrike in there though. Put a mech in there and we're on NS2 or even Titanfall territory (The idea of a shrike / Mech transformer - like the Starcraft 2 Viking - is quite sexually arousing to me though mmhhmm).

Yet, I would rather replace bunkers, turrets and vehicles with deployable teleporters. Requiring a generator to be operational - they would become available through this building. The drawback would bet that they are two way. This also provides the game with several phases (like in NS2 - but less arbitrary) where you have fast and long travel at the start, and a shift to faster paced offence later on, forgoing the need for travel to keep things 'fresh'.

I'm a big fan of the Mark Rosewater approach of benefit versus drawback. So I'd like to break down some of these things that way.

So, as an example let's take some deployable base assets:

Primary:

- Flagbase
- Spawn
- Armoury - Main inventory - expands loadouts - perhaps unlocks heavies.
- Generator - Enables teleporters and perhaps player catapults to be deployed.

Secondary - can be placed anywhere, go offline if their parent primary building is destroyed:
- Personal Spawn
- Personal Inventory (contains x loadouts - all weapons available - maybe except heavies unless armoury is available)
- Catapult (straightforward point and shoot the player in x direction)
- Teleporter Entrance / Exit (fragile, needs two deploys to work. allows for instant travel over larger distances than the catapult).

(Tertiary - Pod gun turrets, mines etc..)

All players have the capability to deploy all forms of assets. Only one of each primary may be deployed. There is a maximum number of secondary assets per player.

An anti asshole mechanic could be the 'vote gun'. Unlimited hitscan weapon. If X% of players shoot said building with the 'vote gun' it will be refunded to the team and destroyed. (Damage mechanics explained below will make abusing the refunding of a damaged building largely pointless).

Objectives and scoring.

For this example let's say we need 1000 points to win.

- The team gains points for all damage dealt, regardless of target.
- The team loses points for all damage received, regardless of target.
- Placing primary buildings costs points.
- Suicide doesn't cost anything (but K'ing out at the last minute won't matter as the damage has already been dealt. Dodging a fight at the start by K'ing out is viable).
- Flags are maybe 250 to 350 points.
- Any vehicle will also have a small point cost.
- A team would start with a small amount of points. Debatable if a flagbase would be free or not.
- Anything weapon related is free and only tied to the inventory / armoury building.

The balancing of these numbers will be difficult. But it would be a fairly skill based scoring system. There should be quite a few different ways to win the game. Pure DM fragging shouldn't be a viable strategy on its own, but falling back on it should be a viable phase - to save points being lost to the base. A single player should never be able to acquire more points than a single flag.

If needed a personal 'max damage' score can be issued. After a player has caused x damage he can no longer contribute to the team score unless he personally takes damage. Or something like that - a debit and credit system if you will.

This way a team could 'stock up' on points by going pure frag in the early game, to then make the transition to flag and base play to start with the advantage they gained. Or attempt a comeback with flags.


Individual base assets:

The Flagbase.

This one needs a specific look as a few problems arise:

1. How do we justify the need for a flag specifically? We know we need one for the sake of the game, but as we've seen in T:A you can't force people to find importance in the flag. They would rather sit in the generator room all day, not contributing at all.
The flag needs to be important to everyone. Even to the base mites.

2. Why even deploy a flag? As a way to gain points, yes. But you provide the opportunity to your opponents as well. If a team has good cappers their opponents will never take that risk.
The need to go to the 'flag deployment stage' needs to be an integral step to take in the progression of gameplay.

We need to make losing a flag a pretty big deal.


Proposed solution:


- You claim the land through the flagbase. Primary buildings can be deployed within the flagbase radius (There is no need for this radius to be small as the maps will be much bigger too).
- When the flag is gone no primary buildings can be placed.
- (balance point: A flag cannot be taken off the stand if the enemy has no flagbase.)

What this achieves:

- Defenders can remain with the base, but they'll fight a losing battle. They need to make that choice.
- Llamagrabbing will be taken seriously by Base mites
- Offence players can stay at the enemy base after disruption has happened to deal a lasting blow.
- A quick route is good for points, a rabbit can lead to the full destruction of the enemy base. Urging people to chase.
- A stand-off gets a whole new sense of urgency to it.
- Bases degrade and have worth. Player loadouts are not at all granted. Maintenance of the base is important, but this importance is very nuanced.
- No flagbase is viable, but your opponent will have the advantage of loadout and movement versatility.

Spawn

"Players carry a personal deployable spawn point at the start of the game. Once the flagbase is deployed and a spawnpoint is constructed players can opt to ignore their personal spawnpoint. When a player has no personal spawnpoint he will spawn at the base spawnpoint.
If the base spawnpoint is down and the player has no personal spawnpoint, the player is fucked."


This is also interesting. Giving everyone their own personal spawn to be deployed gives an extra risk to the early game and a depth that hasn't been seen before.

The urgency to place a flagbase can arise when a large number of players have had their personal spawn destroyed.
It's also a great desperation tactic for the enemy team to take out all spawns as a different avenue to victory.

The idea of a deployable spawn in enemy territory also breathes new life in the otherwise 'mindless fragging' of the roaming defender. Enemy spawns cannot be placed inside a flagbase radius. (The same goes for deployable teleporters or catapult chains).



This was a lot of text, for a fairly simple idea. And one with an interesting amount of depth. I'd love to see it happen.
Also, sorry for the hijack Skeptic, but that's how brainstorming sessions work!

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Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:34 pm
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Post Re: Hybrid game mode idea
Hijack indeed, holy fuck dude

On my way out to work now, don't have time to read and comprehend and respond

The original idea isn't as "busy" as it sounds though. In this vision a bunker isn't a huge structure, it is more like an APC. Remember everything is mobile.

Although the scoring system might need a tweak or two. I also considered linear progression (i.e. reactor > bunker > flag), which could work really well but I favored the idea of a more open system. When you think about it, it is sort of like tic tac toe.


Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:50 pm
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Post Re: Hybrid game mode idea
Ok, went back and read that. There are some great points in there, but overall I'm not really feeling it. However, I see some emergent philosophy here.


When I said a bunker is more like an APC, that gave me an idea for a different twist, so here's version 2:

The base assets in this version are all mounted atop large (and slow) transport vehicles, which are parked in each spawn zone at round start. While in the spawn zone, the assets will be inactive until piloted outside of that boundary. Assets are also inactive while being piloted, and can be deactivated by returning them to the spawn zone. The vehicles themselves are shielded and cannot be destroyed. Another thing about piloting the bases, they are really slow with no weapons and open cockpits, making you a very easy target.

The basic idea remains the same, we want to have 3 objectives - capture, control, disable:

CAPTURE: Reactor - dispenses armories and vehicles - objective: steal the core and return to spawn zone (CTF)
CONTROL: Teleporter - dispenses beacons and catapults - objective: dominate to control enemy beacons (C&H)
DISABLE: Foundry - dispenses fabricators and turrets - objective: attack to disable enemy fabrications (D&D)

And to elaborate on the secondary assets:

Armory - basically an inventory station, just a small disk you toss on the ground and step on it to equip selected loadout.
Beacon - this is a remote teleportation point. The base and beacons form a quick-travel network.
Fabricator - this is an object that creates structural pieces (fabrications) to construct fortifications.

So there is some role reversal here with the reactor/core now being the stand/flag, and by linking inventory to it we're putting CTF at the forefront. The capture objective is worth points equal to the point cap, making it an automatic win. The control and disable objectives are each worth 25% of the point cap. Scoring is different in this version, each objective is now a one-time event. Taking an objective is permanent - controlling the teleporter commandeers the enemy network, disabling the foundry destroys all fabrications, and capturing the core cuts off their supply line (and hence victory).

The risk/reward system is still in play here. Having all bases in play empowers your team the most, but introduces vulnerabilities that divide your team's attention. Each base has a benefit and a risk attached to it, but by keeping them mobile we allow for more dynamic strategy. For example if the Foundry is in play and nobody is fabricating or placing turrets, it can be moved back to spawn to eliminate that risk.

edit: I also wanted to touch on the drone thing. The idea isn't some insufferable AI that hunts people down, but rather a turret that wanders around within a certain radius of its drop point. This is to make them less vulnerable to long-range attacks with slow explosive projectiles (e.g. disk sniping). Not necessarily a total replacement for stationary turrets, I don't see why there couldn't be a useful function for both.


Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:19 am
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Post Re: Hybrid game mode idea
if any drone happens, it'll probably be pigeon shaped and the source of infinite lols.



maybe a neutral activated thing that neither team really wants to touch unless they are losing....hehehehehehehe(so evil)

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Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Hybrid game mode idea
I had an idea for drones back when the Legions team was working on Engineer, only it was a sensor drone. You'd deploy it, open the mini-map and draw a course you want it to follow. You could have it simply circle around your base, the enemies base, or the entire map itself. The size of the path would determine its speed (bigger the path, slower it went). If you wanted to limit how far a player could send it, you can always give them X amount of "links" they can draw to create the path. Once it came near an enemy player their IFF would pop up for your entire team.

The ability to switch to its onboard camera would be pretty cool, or the ability to manually control it. Though that sorta makes creating a path pointless. Maybe if you stray too far from the path you start to lose control/connection to it.

Image

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Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:38 pm
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Post Re: Hybrid game mode idea
It is just a turret that is hard to disk snipe, nothing more.

..|.


Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:33 pm
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Post Re: Hybrid game mode idea
That's actually a very good idea when you consider disc sniping.

Depending on how its implemented, maybe a few maneuver patterns could be setup to allow for teams to have more dynamic base defenses(good or bad).

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"Not every idea your gonna have is gonna be great, but I guarentee you every idea that doesnt work will somehow work into the idea that does." -Derek Waters

"It's a weird feeling being borderline addicted to gaming and not having anything to play that I can tolerate at the same time." -DejZant

"No longer are you justified saying that an idea in science is not true because it doesn't make sense." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

@Saccaed for updates and randomness...


Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:44 pm
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Post Re: Hybrid game mode idea
A simple approach is to just make a function that randomly changes movement direction whenever it hits x distance from deployment point, so it wanders around within a certain area. Basically a Roomba with a gun on it, lol.

Then adjust wander distance and blast radius of different weapons to balance.


Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:20 am
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