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 Concepts and an introduction 
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Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:16 am
Posts: 143
Post Re: Concepts and an introduction
The first two pictures are from the spawn point. You'd spawn in 'free fall' (honestly no pun intended) or on a very small platform at the top. You'd then make your way outside or fall down to enter the second room (third picture).

Right now I'm designing every room to be a duelling arena. I'm thinking about grabbing these two rooms, adding one or two more and then stitching them together to form a rudimentary deathmatch map so we can test the validity of this environment.

The spawn room might still be a bit too devoid of platforms to make it viable. And I might be making the 'tubes' in the second room a bit too small to be functional. The second room wasn't made with a real plan, just a room to quickly pass by but that can still be used to fight if needed.

My first idea for the second room was to just take the spawn and tilt it on its side, or at least recreate it in some way. But the 'ramp pillars' (of which there are 4 in the spawn) glitched out when rotated 45° None of the 'arch' bsps work too well in open air after being rotated unless you sink them into a wall.
I'm going for simple solutions, so that sort of stuff will have to be thought about later.

Ignorance, I know you said that necro would be a good size to keep the feeling of speed as a base / ctf area. Which is roughly 20k units. But I really don't know about that.
To have a 'big map' feel with these speeds, I really don't think we should go smaller than Netarah (Elegy / Zubis is bigger) and that's 120k. Granted, the distance between the bases is only half that as it is a diagonal plan. Zubis / Elegy is bigger, but with how the bases and hills are mapped out it certainly doesn't feel 'broken' in terms of distance.

One thing that will have to be taken into account is that certain weapons will break once outdoors. They will be effectively useless unless the player makes a considerable effort to close the distance. This isn't a bad thing at all. I'm thinking the ion cannon will become a very important outdoor weapon.

I'm really treating this as a two stage game. Indoors and outdoors. Outdoors will be about movement skill. I'm not talking about routes alone. But generally just getting from place to place as fast and efficient as possible will be a skill to hone.
Once indoors the movement will change drastically - especially with some of the stuff I'm working on. More vertical, forcing you to use jets in another way.

Weapons like the mortar would need a giant boost in either speed or range, it'll definitely be harder than in tribes to hit anything with it. It wouldn't improve it's use indoors by a lot.

Anyway, ... Loads of stuff to consider.

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Greth, much like Lilith, was one of Gods first children. He was subsequently banished from the garden of eden because he kept complaining about the lack of radial symmetry in the heightmap concept of the garden. The placement of the tree of wisdom was also lacking in strategic importance. All historical records featuring Greth, including Bible passages have been expunged since the early 12th century.


Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:01 pm
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:57 pm
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Location: San Francisco, CA
Post Re: Concepts and an introduction
The 20k length of Necro is fairly short, but 120k could easily be more than you think it is. If possible measure important distances of a few Tribes(T1/T2) maps you like(seem to remember it measuring in meters) and convert to unreal units(meters * 48). I seem to remember stand to stand caps for tribes maps measuring 1.5km or less for almost all maps; 1500 * 48 = 72,000. If you find your lateral distances are acceptable but your still having speed issues, scale down along the Z axis.

Whatever sizes you go with, remember that the problems made can be exacerbated or minimized with each decision you make. If the weapons don't fit on huge terrain, it probably would make sense to avoid huge terrain. I would imagine that the issue is more related to how much speed players can gain; so far everyone that's made an attempt at a terrain map(myself included) has made hills far too tall or the valleys far too deep.

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"Not every idea your gonna have is gonna be great, but I guarentee you every idea that doesnt work will somehow work into the idea that does." -Derek Waters

"It's a weird feeling being borderline addicted to gaming and not having anything to play that I can tolerate at the same time." -DejZant

"No longer are you justified saying that an idea in science is not true because it doesn't make sense." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

@Saccaed for updates and randomness...


Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:55 pm
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Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:16 am
Posts: 143
Post Re: Concepts and an introduction
If anyone wants to look around the spawn of the map in UDK (I haven't cleaned up, and I haven't put spawns in so just 'spawn here'. This is just to get a feel for the interior. Let me know if the stand I put out is too big.

http://imgur.com/a/QJ1G7

The map:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rltwztquy4blk ... pha0_3.udk
And the pack if the old one wasn't updated (I forgot)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fhyz4maulraed ... hPack1.upk

_________________
Greth, much like Lilith, was one of Gods first children. He was subsequently banished from the garden of eden because he kept complaining about the lack of radial symmetry in the heightmap concept of the garden. The placement of the tree of wisdom was also lacking in strategic importance. All historical records featuring Greth, including Bible passages have been expunged since the early 12th century.


Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:25 pm
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:57 pm
Posts: 780
Location: San Francisco, CA
Post Re: Concepts and an introduction
yoink...

_________________
"Not every idea your gonna have is gonna be great, but I guarentee you every idea that doesnt work will somehow work into the idea that does." -Derek Waters

"It's a weird feeling being borderline addicted to gaming and not having anything to play that I can tolerate at the same time." -DejZant

"No longer are you justified saying that an idea in science is not true because it doesn't make sense." -Neil deGrasse Tyson

@Saccaed for updates and randomness...


Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:36 pm
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:04 pm
Posts: 102
Post Re: Concepts and an introduction
Ignorance wrote:
yoink...

I laughed.

It looks cool Greth. Ill have to check it out.


Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:08 am
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Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:16 am
Posts: 143
Post Re: Concepts and an introduction
http://imgur.com/a/QJ1G7

Update. Stand base is taking shape. The idea is that you pass through it as quick as possible.
The general idea here is that, yes the place is big but only if you're going slow. You want to pass through as fast as possible. Players will pool together in important locations and that's where the combat will take place. Armour and pickup locations will determine these locations.

Two teleporters are also active. The one in spawn and StandBase are 'finished' their exit locations still need to be built, but they are where they are supposed to be.
They are a pretty big deal in handling this kind of map. Note that these teleporters only go to 'their' side of the map, and the locations will be mirrored. The centre teleporter will be in its own building for each side.
The teleporter locations also never really give you an advantage. It's always a trade of speed or location.
Spawn to Mid will end up underground and will take time and energy to get out of.
StandBase to Outer Hill will cut distance off the return journey if the the base can be survived. An actual route would be faster.
All of this will need to be balanced once we can actually play this map. This is an experiment, to see what we can do with PFF physics and gameplay. I can always tone down elements of the map, including reducing some of the building sizes. But I first want to see what's possible.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fhyz4maulraed ... hPack1.upk
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rltwztquy4blk ... pha0_3.udk

_________________
Greth, much like Lilith, was one of Gods first children. He was subsequently banished from the garden of eden because he kept complaining about the lack of radial symmetry in the heightmap concept of the garden. The placement of the tree of wisdom was also lacking in strategic importance. All historical records featuring Greth, including Bible passages have been expunged since the early 12th century.


Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:45 pm
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Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:13 am
Posts: 82
Post Re: Concepts and an introduction
So Greth I will help you out on this map with static meshes, I'm thinking a flag stand for Neterah would be a good start. I will work up a structure in the basic form that you laid out.

One thing though, when I play the map I don't get any textures, everything is checkerboard and terrain is purple. I put both files in the Maps\P2F folder.


Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:52 pm
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Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:13 am
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Post Re: Concepts and an introduction
Here's the beginning of a structure I threw together, using some meshes I "borrowed" from Transformers games. Just placeholders for now, but it defines the look of the stand:

Image


Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:33 pm
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Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:16 am
Posts: 143
Post Re: Concepts and an introduction
The maps isn't textured yet, so hence the checkerboard. The landscape should have that material on it though.

If you're doing the spikes, I had something a bit more organic in mind (images ref only for the outer spikes, not the inner bit). Thin and sharp basically. Very unlike what's on the stand right now.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... 1_Lair.gif
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... _Rend1.jpg

But I'm sure we'll talk about the details :)

_________________
Greth, much like Lilith, was one of Gods first children. He was subsequently banished from the garden of eden because he kept complaining about the lack of radial symmetry in the heightmap concept of the garden. The placement of the tree of wisdom was also lacking in strategic importance. All historical records featuring Greth, including Bible passages have been expunged since the early 12th century.


Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:20 pm
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:02 am
Posts: 114
Post Re: Concepts and an introduction
looks ok, can it walk? :P


Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:39 am
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